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Paul Graham and Geoff Ralston discuss how Viaweb became an early web app because its founders wanted to avoid writing software for Windows. Graham argues that startup ideas often seem implausible at first, that founders learn by doing manual work for early customers, and that persistence and a strong founding team matter more than raw intelligence. He recommends talking to users, shipping as soon as a product has a small amount of real utility, and not letting fear of competitors or imperfect launches slow progress. The conversation also covers choosing co-founders, YC’s counterintuitive startup advice, fundraising, and the costs of starting a company too early in life.