WhoBuilt

on Adversarial Interoperability

Nov 27, 2019· 1 h 12 min· 6.3K views·Watch on YouTube

Speakers

Cory Doctorow, science fiction novelist and technology commentator, discusses adversarial interoperability, platform power, copyright, and the future with Joe Betts-Lacroix on Y Combinator’s podcast.

How adversarial interoperability helps new entrants

Doctorow distinguishes indifferent, cooperative, and adversarial interoperability, where a new product connects to an incumbent’s system without its permission. He points to Samba, which replicated Microsoft’s SMB networking protocol, and Apple’s reverse engineering of Microsoft file formats for iWork as examples that helped rival platforms work with office systems.

Legal barriers and opportunities for founders

Doctorow argues that software patents, the DMCA, terms of service, and related legal claims have made compatibility work riskier for new companies. He says founders can create products that let people use incumbent platforms while shifting some activity elsewhere, and cites Mint’s bank-site scraping and HiQ’s LinkedIn scraping dispute as examples. He notes that legal outcomes are uncertain and says he is not a lawyer.

Copyright, copying, and creative work

Doctorow supports having rules for the entertainment industry but argues that copyright rules built for industrial copying are a poor fit for everyday internet use, where data is routinely copied. He proposes clearer allowances for some uses alongside flexible fair-use principles, using the commercial novel The Wind Done Gone as an example of transformative criticism. He distinguishes industrial uses from cultural ones, while recognizing that some cases are difficult to classify.

Concentration, trust, and collective action

Doctorow says dominant platforms invoke their scale to justify their power, while concentration can reduce competition and make firms’ interests converge. He connects distrust in institutions to weakened truth-seeking processes and regulatory capture, using chemical waste standards in West Virginia as an example. He argues that smaller, more pluralistic systems can make room for alternatives and resilience.

Building for a changing future

Doctorow describes science fiction as a way to explore possible futures and influence what people choose to build, rather than predict what must happen. He suggests founders look for growing pressure around problems such as climate risk and platform dependence, and build for recovery and resilience. He argues that interoperability can help people move gradually from incumbent platforms without requiring everyone to leave at once.

Takeaways

  • Look for ways to let users try a new service while keeping access to the incumbent network they still rely on.
  • Treat compatibility work as both a product opportunity and a legal risk; assess the relevant claims with qualified counsel.
  • Design copyright and content rules around the actual context and scale of use.
  • Watch for unmet needs at the edges of large platforms, where users may want more control or privacy.
  • Use science fiction and social trends to explore possible product directions, then build for resilience as well as growth.

Mentioned in this talk

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What was claimed 7

  • built
    Samba built SMB
    Replicated the protocol through free, open-source software.
    “He released free, open-source software called Samba.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk
  • built
    Reverse-engineered Microsoft's file formats to make a compatible office suite.
    “Apple reverse-engineered Microsoft's file formats, cloned them, and made a new suite called iWork.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk
  • uses
    Scraped financial company websites when there was no API.
    “doing adversarial interoperability with their websites by scraping.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk
  • built
    “A friend of mine, Aaron Patzer, created something called Mint.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk
  • acquired
    Mint: Sold to a large financial corporation; buyer not named.
    “That allowed him to build a big startup that got sold for gazillions of dollars to one of those giant financial corporations.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk
  • uses
    Scraped LinkedIn for employer analytics.
    “HiQ was scraping LinkedIn to produce employer analytics.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk
  • role at
    “I'm one of the owners of a website called Boing Boing.”
    YouTube
    Unverified1 source· Talk

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