Conversion measures how efficiently people move from one step to the next, and growth depends on balancing conversion with churn. Hale says to focus on conversion when a business has a leaky bucket. He gives freemium SaaS conversion rates of 1.5% to 5%, averaging about 3%, and contrasts them with higher rates for products with strong purchase intent, such as TurboTax Online at 70%.
How to Improve Conversion Rates
Speaker
Kevin Hale of Y Combinator explains how to improve conversion rates, using landing page examples from MeetingRoom.io and Divjoy.
Hale uses designer Jared Spool’s knowledge spectrum to describe the gap between what users currently understand and what they need to know to use a product. Interface improvements can either give users more of the knowledge they need or make the product easier to understand. He suggests imagining a page with one button and asking what information would help someone choose to press it.
Hale’s seven questions cover the call to action, what the product is, whether it looks legitimate, who else uses it, how much it costs and what the catch is, and where users can get help. The call to action should lead users close to the product’s “magic moment,” when they understand its value. Clear descriptions, visible pricing, evidence of use, and easy access to help can reduce uncertainty.
For MeetingRoom.io, Hale points to competing calls to action, a seven-step carousel before users can make a room, and beta messaging that may make the product seem unready. He suggests making the main action clearer and helping visitors experience a meeting sooner. For Divjoy, he says the templates hide that the product generates a complete SaaS codebase; download counts help show that people use it, while missing FAQs and company information leave questions unanswered.
Takeaways
- Check whether conversion is actually the bottleneck before spending time improving it.
- Make the main action obvious and put it close to the product’s clearest demonstration of value.
- Explain what the product does in plain language users can quickly recognize as relevant.
- Show pricing, explain how a free product makes money, and make help easy to find.
- Use real evidence of product usage and make the full scope of the offering visible.
Mentioned in this talk
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What was claimed 7
- metricFlickr: Conversion rate between 5% and 10% in its heyday.
“Flickr, back in its heyday, had a conversion rate between 5% and 10%.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk
- metricAdult Friend Finder: Conversion rate between 10% and 22%.
“10% to 22% for sex and an end to loneliness.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk
- metric
TurboTax: 70% conversion rate.
“TurboTax Online: the monster 70% conversion rate.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk
- built
“This was created by an amazing interface designer named Jared Spool.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk
- featureknowledge spectrum: Describes the gap between a user's current knowledge and the target knowledge needed to use an interface.
“Every interface problem that's trying to be solved is trying to close what we call the knowledge gap.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk
- featureMeetingRoom.io: Creates virtual rooms for meetings in VR.
“if you want to meet with someone in VR, you can use this to create that space and have that meeting.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk
- featureDivjoy: Generates a complete React codebase, including a dashboard, sign-in page, and pricing page.
“It's a dashboard, a sign-in page, a pricing page—it's the entire project for building a SaaS app.”
YouTube Unverified1 source· Talk









